Community Training.

[Noddy]

When: Every second Wednesday
Time: 2030hrs for approx 120 minutes
What: Each week we will build on skills developed from previous weeks starting from the basics like formations and fire and movement and hopefully ending with full 64p engagements where assets are used to support infantry.


This is just a concept - and in no way do Aux.| want to take full responsibility for it - so if you want to help out, whether it be provide training plans, assisting during the night (experienced squad leaders - good inf or asset skills etc.) please suggest away.

This is not a reaction to any other events - but something we've been discussing internally for about a month, however rather than simply complaining about the skills - lets do something to address it.

My idea is to start with Muttrah skirmish and finish with the 64p version.

Discuss.

[olweinglorian]

Very interested and this is actually really good. Muttrah skirmish as in the 16-player map?
The 64p map might be a bit overwhelming because either the US KNOWS how to deploy correctly and not crash the damn choppers

Will this also incorporate Squad Leader training for those that DO want to take up the post? (Me) I'm willing to lead a squad under orders from a more experienced instructor.

[Noddy]

Skirmish layers are even smaller than 16p maps and have no assets (inf only).

If you want SQL training - then yes that can be incorporated. What sort of things were you after:

a) how to kick people from the squad who don't follow orders :D
b) firebase / asset placement
c) comms

?

[Rknown]

I would also be interested in some SL training.
a) firebase/asset placement
b) Comms: in game voice, TS3 and mumble use)
c) Squad movement and tactics
d) Identification and use of shovel. ;)

[VapoMan]

Great idea.

Ill be happy to help out. :)

[jamo128]

I will be happy to help out in anyway.

[Fall.au]

sounds cool , might it be an idea to start advertising this ingame so that it gets some new players in other than it just being full of forum regs.

im sure its not that hard to chuck up a server message every so often about it

[mrSnuffLuffiGus]

Stoked with the idea Noddy, I'm not too far off being able to get back into PR so I look forward to the opportunity to get up to speed.
Maybe a thread could be started that includes simple n straight forward tactics and techniques that get developed and applied during these sessions, to document n build on the experience.

[Buzzard]

You Know What I'm Doing Noddy =p

[ToonS]

I'm all for helping out with this.

[Flowright]

Hey Noddy -- me and Roy actually thought of something like that for our community too - for newcomers at the very least.

However, I do want to train flying and leading. I am glad to join your training team as trainer or trainee (whichever pleases you). But since my computer is dead for a while - I would have to fight Roy's seat to get on the server :).
________
ECIGS123 (http://www.ecigarettes123.c om/)

[Jtime]

Bloody excellent idea Noddy! :notworthy:

The notion of a training night has definitely got me thinking of how it could be executed...even though I'm new to the community i think i have some solid ideas expanding on the basics suggested.

First and foremost. The nights should probably be split into two sections.

1) a briefing/uncontested demo of the role/objective of the 'prac', possibly rotating squads to allow individual players each to assume the role/objective of the night - this will promote understanding for all players even if they do not plan to fulfill it in pubs/prac.

Not only will this cover the simple execution, but the underlying logic and tactics as to how and why certain things are done. It will also eliminate the TL DR attitude of some people towards forums as reading a forum brief will not be essential.

2) The practical execution Now that all participants understand how to execute the aims of the prac it's time to put said skills to the test in combat. Communication should be available between opposing faction SLs/Admins via Mumble/TS so the prac may be briefly 'halted' if major points of interest/relevance arise.

NB: By no means should the prac have to be divided timewise 50/50. Preferably the 'demo' stage should be as short as practical, once everyone knows what to do, the prac should begin immediately. A good yardstick figure would be a 20/80 division of time (~25 mins brief then ~95 prac)


**IMO: The large Wednesday fortnightly workshops should primarily focus on Infantry and Mechanised Infantry. (I believe this is what noddy is suggesting anyway)...This way there could also be smaller 'workshops' possibly worked around the major prac that focus on specific assets for people interested (multiple assets could be run simultaneously on certain maps)(it could be run by known vehicle whores like elmo, buzzard, fall etc etc)

[Jtime]

For the nights to be run effectively and repeated into the future a 'checklist' of different training roles/objectives etc should be laid down. I'll start one in this post, hopefully it is useful, feel free to add to it Bolding your additions.

this list isn't exhaustive and additions would be appreciated!

It shouldn't take one prac to tackle an individual topic/sub topic, but rather having a list to make sure all bases are covered and we don't forget anything across pracs.

1) Squad work (LARGE FOCUS - huge topic)
a) movement
b) comms
c) positioning
d) kit selection/squad roles

2) Squad Leading/Building of Asset Structures
a) use/features of the kit
b) Defining a squads role and tactics
c) issuing and executing orders
d) managing your squad
e)Fobs/Dogboxes (emphasis of how critical they are!)
f) Other assets

3) Standard Kits (SL, AR, Medic, Specialist)
a) Basic uses and limitations
b) tactics for each kit

4) Non-Standard Kits (anything not listed in standard kits)
a) Basic uses and limitations
b) tactics for each kit

6) Land Based and Amphibious Assets
a) Basic uses and limitations
b) tactics for each kit
c) avoiding anti ground assets
d) panicking when the attack chopper shows up

7) Air Assets
a) Basic uses and limitations
b) tactics for each kit
c) Anti air/Hats other threats

8) Commander (underused IMO)

9) Application of above tactics to non-conventional factions (hamas, talibam, insurgent) (for insurgency mode)

[1GeKKo3]

sounds very similar to my proposal to the head admins a month or so ago and unfortunately i can not take part due to no PR rig.

Noddy, if you never received my brief from Bahyle, ask him for it, or i can send it to you, if your interested and think it might help.

Just a few initial suggestions from me;

- start very simple and basic
- train in live environments
- most participants will get bored and distracted very quickly, why first 2 points are very important
- if people are interested in learning then they will listen in the heat of battle, if they cant, then they need to re-think their attitude to this unique game
- the ultimate goal of these sessions are to create players that think the same for most gameplay aspects so you know what the players around are going to do when situations come up, for example, if you facing one way, the guy next to you is covering your flanks.

[Click62]

I am in training and help if need be.

[Xavo]

I'll be on hols for then, so I'm keen to give you a hand with whatever Noddy. I can do as I'm told, or I can sometimes tell other people what to do + I need practice at that last one.

[Krazier]

this wall of text is for noddy and anyone else that wishes to read it :P



Maybe im going a bit over board but i would start with what people will be doing the training. Then make sure those people are aware of the very basic's in how to reach people in a training enviroment.

small example below.



Each Person has thier own individual style of learning. Individuals differ in the way they organise their experiences into meanings, values and skills. The squad leader (trainer) must take into account the varying styles of learning when preparing and delivering training. An effective learning environment allows for different learning styles and provides a wide range of opportunities and training methods so that everyone has access to the type of program that suits them.

Learners can be grouped into four main styles of learning. Many individuals will keep to one preferred style but in some situations they may use a combination of styles. Learning styles can be described as:

• Auditory
• Visual
• Kinaesthetic
• Combination when you combine any or all of the above according to the material to be learned

Visual

Visual learners need to see what is going on. You may be able to detect visual learners because they like reading, television, and enjoy looking at photos, plans or cartoons. They are attracted during training to words like "see, look, appear, picture, make clear, overview". They probably have strong spelling and writing skills. They may not talk much, dislike listening for too long and are distracted by untidiness or movement. You can train a visual learner best by using:

• Posters, charts and graphs
• Visual displays
• Booklets, brochures and handouts
• Variety of colours and shapes

Auditory

Auditory learners learn by listening. You can detect auditory learners because they love to talk, are attracted to sound and distracted by noise, and prefer to hear things rather than read them. They may love the telephone and music, read in a "talking" style, hearing the text as they go, or appear to daydream whilst "talking" inside their head. You can train an auditory learner best by using:

• Question and answer
• Lectures and stories
• Audio tapes
• Discussion pairs or groups
• Variety in tone, rate, pitch and volume Music or slogans

Kinaesthetic

Kinaesthetic learners learn by doing. You can detect kinaesthetic learners because they move around a lot, tap pens or shift in their seat(or in our case jump around with there avatar change weapons alot ect). They want lots of breaks, enjoy games and don't really like reading. They remember best through practice. You can train a kinaesthetic learner best by using:

• Team activities
• Hands-on experience
• Role plays
• Note taking
• Emotional discussions

As a trainer, you should use a variety of techniques to ensure that all the participants' learning styles are catered for. You should also consider helping participants use other styles where this would prove beneficial for them.


so keeping all this in mind the SQd leader or trainers role is to


1. Determine the need of the individual or group ( experiences, learning types of the group, can individuals help the training or do they need special attention ect ect ect)
2. Explain the topic in detail with the individual or Group
3. Demonstrate the topic with the individual or Group
4. Practice the topic with the individual or Group
5. and then ask for feedback/questions

Use training aids, manuals, specialists (assest whores that can whore correctly :P ) vids, what EVER to get the message accross.

i can go on and on and on but i wont. Now that is pretty basic stuff that makes training a group of people a hell of alot easier.

But by far KEEP IT INTERESTING. Bored people switch off.


ok enough of that crap

As Jtime has touched on its very important you have a training guide, a map of what you are about to train in for each participant (This is for everyone so it would be in the BIG D PR training section)

A manual that contains all our diagrams, images, vids, reading material, pics of Baaaah leeeeeee telling his kids off, and maybe a pre prepared visual presentation or two. (once again in BIG D's PR training section)

and lastly an assesment. lets face, it we all like to know if we took in the information and are doing what we were taught the right way. With out an assesment the person is left wondering if they remember everything and are doing it all the right way.


Deep breath.......


sooooooooo pretty much from what ive seen and in my experences of training.........
Put in a she'l be right effort in training someone and thats level of experence that person will get out of your training session.
Put in a professional effort and that is what the end product will be.
People are only as good as the person training them.

So personally as a PR player i think we as a community should first prepare a training guide on what we would like our player base to know, then go forth and gather the theory and training aids to help train these people in the topics of the guide. Then train and assess them.

lol maybe i should have just said that last paragraph......

anyways sorry if im out of line.

[bkt]

To help newcomers learn the ropes for PR, I think you're indeed going a little overboard krazier :P We won't need to adopt a VARK's friendly system, but just let the common sense of the trainer cover the differing learning styles of the trainees.

I'd be happy to lead a squad and share some knowledge, but I'm certainly not going to be participating in or supporting written documentation for people to learn how I reckon they should play PR.

I imagine the training sessions are more designed to cater to people who want to participate in a more team oriented game of PR, differing from the community nights in that they're centered around teaching new guys skills and not working your head around new rules.

So yeah, I don't reckon each wednesday night needs to be an independent learning object, but just a friendly session of PR where experienced players share their knowledge to people who want to learn it. Afterall, it's not required and ideally only people who want to learn will turn up, eliminating the toughest hurdle in education, willing participation :)

[Noddy]

Those are good points Krazier - definately would like to see some sort of field manual or instructions of at least the points that the person (SQL) cover each night - that way we know everything has been covered and everybody is sorta getting the same level of training whomever is giving it - but in a dot point format - nothing too formalised.

[Devil288]

I like the idea, definitely introduce players how to play the game :D I'm willing to help out a bit :)

[Fall.au]

I like the idea, definitely introduce players how to play the game :D I'm willing to help out a bit :)

hopefully its advertised ingame so that some new players actually get a look in

[Noddy]

I need to obtain approval for me to change the server messages - but yeah would definitely be a good idea.

If you're in a squad with new players - let them know about the forums and what we will be doing ;)

[Shadow]

Would be nice to train all SL'ers in how to LAZE or generally mark/report targets properly, as this can vastly improve teamwork when working with assets.

Edited: Typos :facepalm:

[Xavo]

Also Noddy, when the server gets locked for this event, I reckon you have to sign up in a thread then the pass gets inboxed to you. There'd be a fair few names, but you could get some trusted community members to help you.

This would help promote people sign up to the forums and then actually post.

[Bahlye]

I need to obtain approval for me to change the server messages - but yeah would definitely be a good idea.

If you're in a squad with new players - let them know about the forums and what we will be doing

Can be done ..Tell me what you want and I will show you how to do it ;)..
It just gets added to the automessages and a frequency set and can be disabled/enabled.

Admins can do mass PMs, the only time consuming part is getting the list of peps who are coming
Need peoples exact forum names so compiling a list off the "sign up "thread is the way to go or some poor admin gets to go searching ;).

[Elmo147]

Need peoples exact forum names so compiling a list off the "sign up "thread is the way to go or some poor admin gets to go searching ;).

i'll put my hand up before i get asked

[Xavo]

Maybe if the sign up thread is for exact forum names only. Or is that what you were implying, because I'm tired and its hard to read between the lines atm... ;)

[snowman777a]

I've decided to come back to the game once again (casually of course!)
I could do with the training or even assist in some scenarios if needed.

[Elmo147]

Maybe if the sign up thread is for exact forum names only. Or is that what you were implying, because I'm tired and its hard to read between the lines atm... ;)

all an admin needs to do is go through and copy the forum name as it is from everyone who posts. then just PM bahlye the list so it can be done easier

[Xavo]

Doh, course they could do that... ;) What was I thinking, needing a forum account to post...

Seems fair enough to me.

[CaptainKoons]

As a noob I would be in for this...still trying to find my way around and no doubt frustrating the odd SL in the process!! (apologies to those who have already encountered me!!!)

now if only I could get my mic issues sorted....

[radr21]

Not baggin' you Noddy.

However IMO if a person is to play PR they should have at a sheer minimum the ability to understand what a shovel is and how to move as a unit etc. I can understand it for learning to fly but most of the learning in PR is progressive, meaning that a rookie learns from a senior person i.e. SQL or experienced SQ member.

I would certainly try to train in helo flying but if a person is unable to learn on the fly then they need to practice in co-op or LAN, rather than locking a server for 2 hours to 'train up' people who should be adequately skilled.

Excuse my negativity, just had strong feelings about this.

[sabre19]

but most of the learning in PR is progressive, meaning that a rookie learns from a senior person i.e. SQL or experienced SQ member.

That is what this is, the games during this 2hr period will have experienced people leading sqd's of people who want to learn a few things. Where as during most regular games people will squad up with there mates or whatever these games will be about learning and the experience will be spread out.

Think of it as a progressive learning somewhat condensed and more focused.

[VisOne]

Jesus haven't seen one of these in a long time.

Wait first one was in April 2007 - http://www.bigdgaming.net/showthread.php?t=171 0

Had another in May of 2007 - http://www.bigdgaming.net/showthread.php?t=183 8

The last to the best of my knowledge was in June of 2007 - http://www.bigdgaming.net/showthread.php?t=215 5

PR has changed allot since then and its a bit of trip down memory lane looking at the contributing members behind those sort of things back then. Its good to see new faces and names taking up the charge well done those men.

Have a good game guys and don't shy away from the some good old infantry tactics. Couple good examples your squad doesn't die when the squad leader dies. Appoint a 2ic and let them call the shots till you get back into the fray. Also don't be afraid of splitting your squad have an assault and gun group. That way they can provide fire and movement to each other. One half of your section can be suppressing (WHICH ACTUALLY WORKS NOW ZOMG!) the enemy while the other bounds from cover and vice versa.

[radr21]

Not that I am against training its just everyweek might make it annoying. If this does occur I'll be happy to train in helo trans.

[VisOne]

It says every second Wednesday. So that can mean 2 possible things. That 1 it will be one every fortnight or 2 that it will be every 2nd Wednesday of each month. I'm not sure as to which Noddy and the admin team have to make that call but I would hardly say that is everyweek either way.

[radr21]

It says every second Wednesday. So that can mean 2 possible things. That 1 it will be one every fortnight or 2 that it will be every 2nd Wednesday of each month. I'm not sure as to which Noddy and the admin team have to make that call but I would hardly say that is everyweek either way.

Thought it said every week

[VisOne]

Maybe it did previous I am only looking at the thread now.

When: Every second Wednesday

[Daffan]

Would be nice to train all SL'ers in how to LAZE or generally mark/report targets properly, as this can vastly improve teamwork when working with assets.

Edited: Typos :facepalm:

Yes, this is a good one.

[Jestar]

Probably won't work.
-Community doesn't reach out enough to its members to attract a significant level of interest and participation. There will be far too many teachers and not enough students, if that makes sense.

-Certain people aren't designed to have certain things - I'm not meant to fly choppers, for example. The game makes using/flying assets a daunting task for a reason, and it should be left to those with experience in game. Just because you can fly a chopper doesn't mean you can fly it in full 64p public match. If this training is to be done, focusing on assets should be out of it. It should be solely based on infantry and squad work, which is what I think is the true issue within this lack of teamwork.

-BigD is the primary server for the oceanic region, and so it attracts people from all over to the server. It's got its core group of regular's, and the remainder is filled by 'randoms' - we can never control these people and the way they play. Be they 200 pingers, or just people looking to play for one night, they will always be the missing link, in my opinion.

I really think that promoting a clan based community is the way to improve teamwork in the server.
Firstly, they lock players in to the game, to some extent. No longer are they playing a random game, but they're now a part of the community, a semi-regular if you would.
Secondly, clan's teach players the basics of the game, with teamwork in mind. They always have the best squads that get the most done. I've only been playing for 3 months, but being part of inqnerdsion and getting taught by He-who-should-not-be-named and Ford has made me a beast.

I know that the thought of joining a clan to play the game is far more appealing than having to sit and do 'drills' every Wednesday night. but that's just me.

Anyway, Best Of Luck Guys Involved, Hope This Works Out.

[Edwood]

In a previous life, I would be keen, but I'm a finely tuned athlete now, so 2030 AEST is about my bed time (2230 NZST).

I haven't been around much at all for the last 6 months or so... played last nite, and maybe wet my appetite a little again.
Submox was leading a handful of AUX + randoms on Fallujah, and was the best round I've had. Bigups to Submox for some effective SLing.


If any of youz fullas want basics training, or SL training, feel free to hit me up in game... if I'm there :)
Doing some SL training would prolly even make me sharpen my pencil, and I quite enjoy coaching.

[Trotter_1515]

I think this is an awesome idea noddy =D! I'd be keen for some extra training.

[deggy]

What trotter ^^^ said

[51LENT]

What Deggy said to what Trotter said ^^^^

[CanHasCoW]

Yeah im definately down for this.

=]

[VisOne]

Has worked perfectly fine before and if anything promotes the cross training of the existing "trainers/members" which can only further the skill set of the entire community. Clans on the other hand promote elitism, competition and the hoarding of skills and or skilled players.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:26GwhTL uZ5Q_XM:http://img302.imageshack.us /img302/5669/scott22ee.jpg&t=1*

More power to the training night less power to the clans.

*Image of Scotty not really relevant but I think it adds a little class to this discussion.

[Jestar]

Has worked perfectly fine before and if anything promotes the cross training of the existing "trainers/members"

All 232 trainers and 4 members, from the looks of things

Competition is an excellent thing tbh, it should be promoted more between clans. Have you also noticed that setting up a player training programs displays elitism just as much than a clan system. And you can have Ford play with you any time you want, he's a filthy drunk and we don't 'hoard' out bogan skills and members.

[Noddy]

Thanks for your valued input Jester - since you've expressed that you are not interested in participating/helping I'd suggest you don't troll these threads.

[Jestar]

Thanks for your valued input Jester - since you've expressed that you are not interested in participating/helping I'd suggest you don't troll these threads.

Trolling is posting things to deliberately get people angry. That's not what I'm doing. I'm just stating my opinion (oh lord, don't anyone have a different opinion these days), and since varied opinions are treated in this manner, I'll stay out of your thread.

http://www.daveandthomas.ne t/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/thedude-lebowski.jpg
Just my opinion, man.

[VisOne]

I had an witty comment to post in regards to your previous post but I saw that it was needlessly condescending. Considering you had already stated your opinion and I had countered with my own. Thus any further "discussion" would just be a flame war by another name or a trolling if you didn't feel the need to reply.

See what I did there?

I'll leave now before I break something.

[SamEEE]

Just his opinion, man.

You rage, you lose.

[Devil288]

Jester does kind-of make a point though. We should maybe fill the server to 50 experienced players, max, allowing 14 new players to join and learn each week. I doubt more then 14 will join per week.

[Psyrus]

I don't know why you'll all bother... a vast majority of the community appear to be so far beyond help it's not funny, and it'll most likely end up a futile effort.

Kudos for the attempt though, I hope it works well :)

Edit: Nevermind, I just saw the other thread (http://www.bigdgaming.net/showthread.php?t=100 71) and it'll be primarily about individual skills (shooting, flying, tanking, flanking) so I suppose it won't be in vain, although as I believe the reasoning behind the 'training' nights was due to the failure of teamwork in community nights, it seems an interesting choice to train chopper skills.

[bkt]

So long as there's people that are willing to learn and want to improve, then this sort of thing is 100% worth it, regardless of how many won't participate or how many are 'beyond help'.

I don't really see any point in any more 'i don't think this will work' posts...

[SamEEE]

I don't know why you'll all bother... a vast majority of the community appear to be so far beyond help it's not funny, and it'll most likely end up a futile effort.

Kudos for the attempt though, I hope it works well :)

I think this is the case - lots of good people lost interest and the top fell off the community.

I agree its a nice idea, just not sure if it will work for the broader scheme of things.

[Fall.au]

I don't know why you'll all bother... a vast majority of the community appear to be so far beyond help it's not funny, and it'll most likely end up a futile effort.






i dont suppose that dogbox on lashkar helped inspired this post

[sabre19]

In my opinion if 2 people turn up and learn a few things from 60 trainers, then that's 2 more people that hopefully won't annoy you 'all stars' as much in the future.

We all know there is people here who can play PR well, in most cases they've been around for a long time and thats why they can and we know that there is always going to be some people who don't want help and want to play PR how they want to, aslong as they stay within the 'teamwork and maturity' rules then you can't do anything about that even if it isn't how you would do something.

But if the community provides a server and time every fortnight for the new players with an interest in sticking around and playing PR for while to get a 'leg up' skills wise then I can't see there being a reason to tick the loss column?

Good luck with it all.

[Krazier]

nothing too formalised.

May I suggest then Noddy you take up BKT's option of open workshops? But set the training guide yourself based on what people want. Jtime has just about covered it I reckon. Maybe include Fields of fire and Camouflage and concealment somewhere in there. (we all know that surprise is 2/3's of a good fight.) Pick your senior Trainers then have your trainers pick 1 or 2 people to help them.
You should make it semi formal lesson at least. This stops what a lot of people have highlighted (the randoms, if any) stuffing up the lessons. Even if 5 people out of 20 genuinely learn PR's desired level of teamwork and ability it’s a win for the community. Times that by the number of times you run your work shops and the time committed by your training team and I think you have a future plan for PR in Australia.

[Trotter_1515]

Why is it that most people complain about the lack of teamwork on our servers, yet when someone tries to make an effort to improve it they get told its not going to work :wacko: .
I agree with sabre, if only a couple of people show up and learn something, then that is a good step forward.

[CanHasCoW]

i dont suppose that dogbox on lashkar helped inspired this post

I would say it was the whole round too be honest.. lol