Rule Change proposal #2 - Bombcars

[Noddy]

Rule Change proposal #2 - Bombcars

Is detonating a bomb car in an enemy main a valid tactic?

[captncrunch240]

i think it is a valid tactic but it needs to be restricted if it only happens once or twice around its not to bad, but when it happens over and over again and every time the map is played it gets a bit much and people start to get a bit antsy.

[mo0nbuggy1]

I reckon it's one of those things that will either be, No not at all or yes you can. I don't think you can meet half way on this one.

[Ford_Jam]

I reckon it's one of those things that will either be, No not at all or yes you can. I don't think you can meet half way on this one.

This +1

[Shady]

It was fine when people did it once or twice in a round just for a giggle, but now there's hardcore morons who just sit at the insurgent spawn points waiting for bomb vehicles to spawn, JUST so that they can attack the main. Even if there's perfect targets in other areas of the map.

[jamo128]

i was all for it, when we voted yes to allow it.. but know... its just kinda like shady said...

[VapoMan]

What I have said previously on the subject.


"Teamwork and Maturity Required" yet blowing up a bomb car in main is one of the most unportsman like things to do, its just as bad camping the main.

If you dont like it happening to you, then dont do it to other people.

Its a game and we all come here to have fun, not so just 1 person can ruin what could have been a good match for a whole team.

[Xavo]

It was fine when people did it once or twice in a round just for a giggle, but now there's hardcore morons who just sit at the insurgent spawn points waiting for bomb vehicles to spawn, JUST so that they can attack the main. Even if there's perfect targets in other areas of the map.

Exactly my thoughts also.

[Sandy_Beret]

It is tricky, legally. If people are allowed to bomb car mains, then people at
mains should be allowed to use the emplaced machine guns, whatever, to
neutralise suspected bomb cars when they approach.

[Shady]

It is tricky, legally. If people are allowed to bomb car mains, then people at
mains should be allowed to use the emplaced machine guns, whatever, to
neutralise suspected bomb cars when they approach.

http://images4.cpcache.com/product/war-t-shirt-tee/155496444v8_225x225_ Front.jpg

We should live by this rule!

[Mouse]

Bomb car's attacking mains is a pretty cheap and un-cool tactic in my opinion.

Makes it very hard for Bluefor when they are constantly getting all their Helo's and hummers blown up, kohan is a prime example of this. Makes it very hard to get around and take the fight to the cache's

[BL4CK1E]

Its always been yes with the sabotage rules so keep it that way...

[VapoMan]

http://images4.cpcache.com/product/war-t-shirt-tee/155496444v8_225x225_ Front.jpg

We should live by this rule!

Nah I think the signs should say this instead

http://i681.photobucket.com /albums/vv178/vapoman/sign.jpg

[ca-chicken-soup]

Kokan has been the worst for this. It happens every time I've play it.
It's not a game-killer, the boats are still available, but it really takes the effectiveness out of the team.

Another argument against it is that it is an individual attack that ruins a whole teams experience, which is against the team-work nature of PR.

[1Ruke.au]

No No No.

I was on kokan the other night and someone said in team chat about the bombing of US main. So I asked if we could move all the spawned in vehicles out of main around the back and it worked. The poor sods that spawned back at main after a death were able to have transport. But the squadie i was with knew who the person was that would attack main and he was right.

[Click62]

No because what is the point of blowing up enemy without them out in the field fighting.

[jamtheman_m]

i think it is a valid tactic but it needs to be restricted if it only happens once or twice around its not to bad, but when it happens over and over again and every time the map is played it gets a bit much and people start to get a bit antsy.

That creates a grey area in terms of policing the subject.

Has to be concrete IMO - allow it in every form, or not at all.

[mrchickenfool]

kids these days just dont know when to bomb car and when to blow them to hell with something else

[snowman777a]

Its always been yes with the sabotage rules so keep it that way...

New maps and updates means that the old ways may need to change.

[SamEEE]

There arent enough people to defend a main base effectively even with a full server - it would take at least a section (well coordinated at that) to defend and that would put them out of the the actual fight.
To have a section out of the fight it is especially a hindrance for the USA team on Kokan.
One exception being that when that cache that spawns like 200m east from their main is showing a blue diamond I think you should be able to shoot out of main/use the hesco barriers to lay down fire.

[snowman777a]

Good to see issues brought up by the community up for discussion with some sort of democratic system! :)

[sabre19]

If it's yes, you'll need a few defending if you don't want it to happen.

If it's no you'll allow everybody to go out and attack caches.

I think the fact that the US would need to lose numbers actually going for the objectives to defend there main gives the Ins an advantage and I think that the Ins maps are fairly even nowadays so neither side should get something that tilts the advantage.

Also I don't think many people play PR to sit at main waiting for a bomb car that may or may not come, cause lets face it you get no warning of when there going to try it or how many times so your gunna have to be there all round.

Edit: Sameee pretty much said it.

[bkt]

No, no, no!

If the vote ends up yes, I will make it my mission to make bomb humvee's and hit every insurgent main every damn chance I get.

I'm all for bombing anything out field such as the VCP in basrah, but NO NO NO to mains. If some mains on ins maps have a dome of death then it should be assumed that all mains were intended to have one, because this debate will soon become 'is it ok to bomb the mains in fallujah and kokan?'

So, like moonbuggy, sandy, shady and others have mentioned, there are very valid reasons to get rid of this rule and only a very small number of people who actually take advantage of it ( to the extreme, alienfactor).

[(ironchef)spook*AUS*]

voted yes, its called project reality and a vbied attack a main base is a valid tactic.

[Jestar]

Please, forget the fact that its PR for a minute and perhaps think about having FUN in game. I for one don't appreciate when one bomb car can take out half of the US main on Kokan.

Not a valid tactic.

[mrchickenfool]

Please, forget the fact that its PR for a minute and perhaps think about having FUN in game. I for one don't appreciate when one bomb car can take out half of the US main on Kokan.

Not a valid tactic.

Have you thought of how fun it is to shooom into a US main, dodging dudes shooting at you, apc's trying to nail you, all in a bomb car with the jihad music going and blow stuff up? No?
Funny that.

[BL4CK1E]

New maps and updates means that the old ways may need to change.

Are you kidding...
It was way easier to bomb car mains in the last few versions then it was in this one...

[Jestar]

Have you thought of how fun it is to shooom into a US main, dodging dudes shooting at you, apc's trying to nail you, all in a bomb car with the jihad music going and blow stuff up? No?
Funny that.

I daresay that the ability to utilize assets for an entire team is more important than a single player's brief experience.

[mrchickenfool]

DoD on most maps have killed it anyway, whats wrong with shooting them as they come towards you?
Fast approaching vehicles will be fired upon. I don't care if I'm in the main or not, if I see a car coming at the gates, I will shoot at it, simply because I know I can make a fair judgement of when shooting out of main is acceptable or not due my experience of playing the game.

[Jestar]

In reality, my gun would rape both the vehicle and the driver in an instant. In game, it requires a lucky shot

[Bahlye]

Ever fired a gun at a real life person ?...or been shot at in RL.

Seriously Jestar... have a break from the forums for a while, you are giving people the ****s, Your posts have been reported and neg rep given ever since you joined.............. think if what you are about to say really needs to be said.. if not then just think it........don't post it.

[Daffan]

In reality, my gun would rape both the vehicle and the driver in an instant. In game, it requires a lucky shot

This is true (shooting at enemy ingame they dont die), when they come you shooooooot like a mad man and they dont die (healthbar system orite) and then bang every humvee, helicopter and truck is gone.....hmm recall on the new map Kokan? 6+ cars, all trucks and 2 helo's pop

Most people who stick around mains dont got any idea whats going on anyway so they dont look out for it, just waiting for a kit or something, i guess should include "defending the spawn" into the training thingy if vote makes it 100% legit.

[sabre19]

Have you thought of how fun it is to shooom into a US main, dodging dudes shooting at you, apc's trying to nail you, all in a bomb car with the jihad music going and blow stuff up? No?
Funny that.

That's fun for 1 minute for 1 person and potenially ruins the fun for a whole team for the majority of a round.

As much as the anonymity of the internet allows you to play like it's all about you, sometimes it's nice not too :D

[BrigJackOneil]

ok lets look at the current range of maps & visibility from the main bases.
Kokan being the main map where car bombs can get too close has bugger all visibility from it.
from what i can think of, shooting out of main pretty much has bugger all advantage in most of the maps.
so if your the enemy & can be seen from main, firing from it should be allowed.
as the walls are high obviously only infantry can do this.

So as this is PR, the enemy should also be allowed to sho........

screw explaining this, lets just allow FREE FOR ALL, this is war & there are no rules,if you can get that close go for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We will hunt you down & eradicate you!!!!!!!!!

raw hard work is what makes PR so lets make it as real as possible!!!!!!!

[Gossy*AUS*]

No, because:

1: It conflicts with the "No attacking uncappable flag" rule.

2: Although sometimes considered a valid tactic, it does get abused, as every loop hole in the universe does.

3: If successfully executed at the beginning of a round, the BLUFOR are essentially f***ed for the next 15-20 minutes. Hello mass exodus.

4: We play this game for "fun".
This tactic is only "fun" for one person.
It is not "fun" for up to 63 other players, whom will then find the game either too challenging, or not challenging enough.

[snowman777a]

BrigJackOneil: If you want to make this game as real as possible consider they should make it after 1 death you can never play the game again. There aint no respawn in 'reality', there also isn't minimaps where you can check everyone is, or perfect maps with grids, perfect voice communications, and the teams aren't always even 64 vs 64....

Might want to consider how 'real' we'd like the game to be...

[VapoMan]

For those that dont know how much 1 bomb car can do take a look at this.

http://i681.photobucket.com /albums/vv178/vapoman/bf22010-12-0217-09-33-98.jpg

That is 1 small bomb car, destroying 3 logis, 6 humves, 2 kiowas, and 1 blackhawk.

That would screw up the whole game, for most of the round the US team wont have enough assets to do much, making it boring for BOTH SIDES. The insurgent team wont have anything to shoot at.

It also loses a whole heap of tickets for them which makes it so they probably wont have enough to win.

EDIT: thats how much 1 bomb car can do. On the 64 layer insurents get 3 small bomb cars and 1 bomb truck. There can be 2 of each on the field at a time and they respawn.

[COKEMAN369]

So how many bomb cars do they get in Kokan?

[bkt]

2 bomb cars on spawn, 1 bomb truck, which respawn every 20 mins. The only way to consider this a valid tactic is to expect a group of blufor to to guard their main for the entire match. If you voted yes or consider bombing the main, then you god damn better be prepared to be the poor bastard sitting in their main for 2 hours!

I didn't think you were...

These are public games, not scrims, not world cup matches, so it's unreasonable to expect the blufor to have a rock solid roll out that includes said defensive detail in anticipation of that first bomb car from alienfactor 1 minute into the round.

Not to mention the fact that one bomb car in the main on kokan, as demonstrated by vapo can cost the US 70+ tickets. Insurgency gameplay and is not designed to accommodate this crap, even if you argue it is, then the bigD 'shooting from main' rule certainly doesn't cater to it.

[COKEMAN369]

NOOOO WAIIIIII i voted no.

[mrchickenfool]

Well, I'm a lost cause, I miss the olden days when bomb cars could do whatever without getting raged at.

And yes, I AM actually saying this, I miss having the Fallujah mains the other way around.
http://www.smokingsigns.com /img/lg/S/Flammable-Material-Danger-Sign-S-1828.gif

[CaptAndy]

is this a joke?

[Chanvlan]

2 bomb cars on spawn, 1 bomb truck, which respawn every 20 mins. The only way to consider this a valid tactic is to expect a group of blufor to to guard their main for the entire match. If you voted yes or consider bombing the main, then you god damn better be prepared to be the poor bastard sitting in their main for 2 hours!

I didn't think you were...

These are public games, not scrims, not world cup matches, so it's unreasonable to expect the blufor to have a rock solid roll out that includes said defensive detail in anticipation of that first bomb car from alienfactor 1 minute into the round.

Not to mention the fact that one bomb car in the main on kokan, as demonstrated by vapo can cost the US 70+ tickets. Insurgency gameplay and is not designed to accommodate this crap, even if you argue it is, then the bigD 'shooting from main' rule certainly doesn't cater to it.

+1 to all your points. Pretty much sums up my view.

[Psyrus]

Not to mention the fact that one bomb car in the main on kokan, as demonstrated by vapo can cost the US 70+ tickets. Insurgency gameplay and is not designed to accommodate this crap, even if you argue it is, then the bigD 'shooting from main' rule certainly doesn't cater to it.To be accurate the vehicle losses are ~43 tickets at worst, with say +5-10 for players in the main at any given time. A bomb car detonation, from my knowledge kills you outright, so it would only be the 5-10 tickets on the players rather than -2 each.

Jeeps - 2 tickets
Trucks - 2 tickets
Transport Helis - 5 tickets
Attack choppers (Kiowas) - 10 tickets

But I agree with everything you're saying BKT.

To be honest, I would be up for a fair compromise.. the insurgents can bombcar my main all they want, if I'm allowed to attack their main spawn with vehicles in kind :)

[CEBear]

I voted that it's a valid tactic. This really only happens on Kokan, on other insurg maps you're lucky to even get one main bomb car. If someone can take a bomb car from the Kokan main, drive all the way to the U.S main base without getting shot something is wrong with the tatics of the people playing and the main deserves to be bomb car'd.

I mean, if they can bombcar us about 60-90 seconds into the round, while the entire team is out the front of main, doesn't that reflect poorly on us? Additionally, on Kokan, it's extremely easy to save any type of vehicle by parking it south of the main. That's what we did last time I played and the bomb cars were dealing zero damage to us.

But w/e, looks like the general consensus is against me.

[BlackMagikz]

I mean, if they can bombcar us about 60-90 seconds into the round, while the entire team is out the front of main, doesn't that reflect poorly on us? Additionally, on Kokan, it's extremely easy to save any type of vehicle by parking it south of the main. That's what we did last time I played and the bomb cars were dealing zero damage to us.

But w/e, looks like the general consensus is against me.

It happens on other maps you know , like Basrah , Archer and Fallujah ( used to be easier with old US main ) . I'm pretty sure people got better things to do then sit around doing nothing , i'd rather play the game itself ( going after caches or objectives , etc... )

To be honest, I would be up for a fair compromise.. the insurgents can bombcar my main all they want, if I'm allowed to attack their main spawn with vehicles in kind :)

^^^ Strafing their main with Kiowas ? :P




i don't like the fact people are not allowed to shoot out of main , but yet Bomb cars are allowed to stroll in , not to mention no mortaring it ......Should be a amendment to this ( a bit overdue for bomb cars ) . Last Poll people seem to be more concerned with cheap kills rather then defending the cache

If people are in a certain Radius near main , then leave or be shot and of course IMO ( of course this depends on map size and Flag captures ) should be applied for all maps

[snowman777a]

I can't beleive 21 people have voted yes on this, if you want to play 'reality' like in 'real life' give he blue force the entire US military & allies assets.

It will be epic to see the blue force call in b2 & b52 air strikes continuously on the insurgents main....ohhh wait... shoe is on the other foot.... that would be unfair...

It's a game, lets try to keep it balanced and the fight in the contestable area's of the map.

[PinkFloyd*AUS*]

let the assets camping within main bases dome of deaths begin

[captncrunch240]

if the assets are sitting there unused they are free game but hard for it to ruin the game if thay arnt being used any ways get them out n the field were there needed and that way a bomb car cant destroy them. in saying that i beleve that this tactic has been getting abused as of late by some players. im still on the fence on this one i can see why people dont like it but and can alos see why insurgents would wont to do it as well. As for runing the game yes it can do that but only if the players let it do so. yes the bluefore will potentialy have not many vehciles left but im sure there will be some in the feild still comunitcate and teamwork use those remaining vehicles to your benefit start transporting troops into the field and play as infintry its only for 20mins any ways

[VisOne]

If you look back at the discussions here the previous discussion and luckily for me I had seen the previous admin discussions about this. I can see a clear picture that informs my decision.

The argument for is sound enough it happens in real life. But then again in real life no military instillation would have a unmanned perimeter. One could not simply bum rush the gates or hesco fortifications without being fired upon.

So the reality vote is still universal NO for me.

Finally because I believe that regardless of who is playing or what is at state everyone needs to be having fun. I would not do it myself, that said I would certainly monitor your base and spring a good old blind gary out the ditch attack on a viable target. Not only would I do that but I have being on the end of one with 3 or 4 other guys in the vehicle with me and you know what. It was great fun even though we were the target and my reaction was to scream like a little girl "Ohhhh crap its gary" the other guys had a good laugh and we even got a good poke from the gary driver over mumble. See a well used bomb car of truck is bloody fun and extremely funny so why waste it on an empty base?

So the fun/game factor is also universal NO for me.

[CEBear]

So I guess we can all thank alienfactor for abusing this tactic, making everyone QQ and subsequently getting the rule changed back.

[Krazier]

Alienfactor didnt abuse anything. He followed the rules. I dont think singleing out a player in our community is helpful to this topic atm.

I think the rule needs to be changed personally due to the fact that Kokan is so easy to hit, and each hit takes ALOT of tickets off Bluefor. The map is already a difficult one for the US and the need for the assets is to high. Also like BKT has said, if they can bomb car Bluefor then can a Bluefor guy go crazy and c4 Opfor's base??? Can a chopper or gunship shoot up there main? Its just as realistic.

Mains are getting smaller and the game has to change with the times... It sucks but it is also a good thing at the same time.


Oh and im the same as vis....... voice 10 pitches higher when i call out bomb car or Gary!!!!!! Always grins all around when ya destroy one before it detonates too. Or the great escape with benny hill music playing in my head take place! To waste that effect on a main seems......... such a waste to our game.....

[ZondaX15]

Zonda votes no.

[CEBear]

Alienfactor didnt abuse anything. He followed the rules. I dont think singleing out a player in our community is helpful to this topic atm.


Considering most people complaining about the rule also complain when he does it constantly ingame, it's a pretty sure bet that this rule has been put up for another discussion partly because of what he does.

I couldn't care less if he does or doesn't do it, but play any insurg round with alien on the insurg team and watch the U.S guys say "oh here comes alien and his bombcar" etc etc. Even before the round starts people will be complaining about it.

Why not just make an exception. No bombcars allowed in the U.S main on Kokan, but it's ok on other maps. Kokan gets raped a lot because it's easy to do so, other insurg maps not so much.

[sabre19]

I think we've seen in the past rules with even a slight grey area simply don't work. Must be Yes/No, easier to police and should be easier to follow.

[snowman777a]

I think we've seen in the past rules with even a slight grey area simply don't work. Must be Yes/No, easier to police and should be easier to follow.

Right on, at the end of he day either a yes or no in concrete to set it straight.

Snowman says NO.

Willing to make a donation *cough bribe* to increase the likelyhood of 'no bombcars in main' ;)

[captncrunch240]

im open to bribes :P

[mrchickenfool]

let the assets camping within main bases dome of deaths begin

+1.

[Lt. Wispit]

+1.

+2
You wanna blow **** (i put asterixes) up in my main, then im gonna go to yours and blow your toys up, and if you happen to be in the way then thats your bad luck.

Personally if you can come along to mine blow up everything and screw our team over, id want to see some form of payback.

"treat others how you want to be treated" sometimes so often forgotten..

[VapoMan]

Ill post this screenshot again.

1 Bomb car kills 6 humves, 3 logis, 2 kiowas, 1 blackhawk.

Insurgents get 3 bomb cars and a bomb truck and they respawn.

Insurgents get no penalty for doing this, the US team loses around 40~ tickets in an instant.

The way I see it, the insurgents have the upperhand with easy spawn points and no penalty for losing vehicles or dying so why should they bomb car main, its unfair. The US have a tough time as it is trying to detroy caches and set up fob's and trying to lose as little tickets as possible.

Yes someone on the us team could stay at main the whole round to protect it, but that would mean staying at main doing nothing for like almost 2 hours just incase (it might not even happen) a bomb car comes. So that is 1 minute out of the whole round that guy is going to have any fun. Meanwhile the insurgent had the freedom to choose when he was going to bomb main.

We are here to play a GAME and ALL have FUN.

http://i681.photobucket.com /albums/vv178/vapoman/bf22010-12-0217-09-33-98.jpg

[Krazier]

We are here to play a GAME and ALL have FUN.




Vapo WINZOOOOORZ

thats what its all about ladies and gents. Winning is a bonus and teamwork is the focus :)

[captncrunch240]

for the sake of teamwork and fun i vote NO

[Fondue]

I like the idea of people having to defend the base, but at the same time sitting around waiting for just one bomb car every 20 minutes is boring and nobody really wants to do that. I say no.

[anglomanii]

i know this may be going against almost every opinion out there, but i am actually in favor of having no limitations, both sides should be able to attack mains whether indirectly or directly. i have several long winded reasons for this but mostly it's about not having rules that are not INGAME directing the way of play. if it has a DOD that's fine, if not then the main should be a valid target.
i do not like the rules about firing from main and not being able to fire back as well, the only caution i have is about exploiting glitches, for me this is a off limits.

[VapoMan]

The voting is finished now and it looks like the majority say no to bomb cars in main, sooo......

[mo0nbuggy1]

Sooo....Next time someone does it, report them.

[Noddy]

Soo... I'll confirm with the admins that they are happy and we'll announce any new rules in conjunction with an updated rules page.