16p Maps in new version

[AncientMan]

Fuzzhead is doing an audit of the current maps for preparation of the new version. He has asked if anything needs changing in the 16p maps. Does anything need changing in the 16p maps???

I have already suggested that Kashan 16p be moved to in the bunkers for an infantry battle there, or at the very least give each team jeeps if it stays with the current layout. Also have suggested that Al Basrah 16p get 1 more ammo cache.

Does anyone have any more suggestions? Post them here and I will pass them on.

[VisOne]

I'm loading up a local server now to have a look at the maps and see what I can come up with. ;)

[daveee]

More space. Less linear game play.

ie the flags are all in one big line, would be better if they were spread out across a bigger area and you actually have to travel across country to get it.


Otherwise they are far to backwards-forwards.

[VisOne]

Here it is so far

Seven Gates

http://i197.photobucket.com /albums/aa188/VisOne_Photo/Sevengates.jpg

Map simply needs to be bigger incorporate another flag into the map perhaps on the temple itself and change the UK spawn so its no longer in temple grounds at all. Extra flag will help to eliminate quick rounds that turn into a final spawn camp. Moving the UK spawn out to the south eastern forest will allow for more flanking maneuverer's and better game play.


Al Kufrah Oilfield

http://i197.photobucket.com /albums/aa188/VisOne_Photo/Alkufrah.jpg

Completely move the map to the oil refinery, the village it is currently centered around has a huge problem with the ability to shoot through the buildings walls. The southern oil refinery is large enough to have a good 16 player battle and you can leave the spawn points out side behind one of rocks the MEC spawn has less cover but its made up by there better scopes.

Qwai River

http://i197.photobucket.com /albums/aa188/VisOne_Photo/Qwai.jpg

Make it bigger and length wise and move the US spawn back to the the small housing complex and move the PLA back to the furthers most buildings. Rearrange the flags so there a little more evenly distributed, thats about it.

Assault On Mestia

http://i197.photobucket.com /albums/aa188/VisOne_Photo/Mestia.jpg

Great map as is just move the munitions flag out of the building and into the bunker either to South near the entrance or to the east over looking the building. This flag often causes a great deal of problems and moving the flag out of the interior of the building would fix it. Alternatively they could move it to the small building to the south or the hill itself.

[VisOne]

More space. Less linear game play.

IE: the flags are all in one big line, would be better if they were spread out across a bigger area and you actually have to travel across country to get it.


Otherwise they are far to backwards-forwards.

I disagree the backwards forwards part of the smaller maps is what I like about the 16 player maps. Superior skill both in the individual player and how the team works together make for better games with less slogging across maps or waiting for vehicles to spawn cause they have being wasted.

[AncientMan]

Cheers, anyone else got any suggestions like this?

[daveee]

I disagree the backwards forwards part of the smaller maps is what I like about the 16 player maps. Superior skill both in the individual player and how the team works together make for better games with less slogging across maps or waiting for vehicles to spawn cause they have being wasted.

I'm not talking massive walks across the map, they just need a bit more space and the ability to attack the flag from more than one direction!

[pogoman]

I like the fight over the munitions flag so I would leave it where it is.
I agree with the rest of VisOne's suggestions though, especially seven gates. before that map was extremely unfair for the Chinese.
I say definitely move Kashan to the bunker area as I have no idea why they didn't do that in the first place, and make it infantry only.
The rest of the maps are fine IMO though I haven't played all of them.

[[EzY]_f0r3st.au]

maybe on seven gates have two maps one at the templ and anoter down at the huts and stuff in the sw corner

[AncientMan]

Thanks for the help guys :)

[1rankman]

yea 32p size for 7 gates would be cool

[Ablack77]

I would like to see the flag radius made larger on ALL flags (big and small maps)

This would have the enemy have to actually clear an area rather than just frag a tiny radius and be assured of a kill or two.

I think the flag area's have been made a little bigger than in previous versions but still think a little larger would add to gameplay.

[GruAncH]

Some flag radius' can be really of center and some are really tiny I may be a hard thing to get right I dont know but a slightly larger radius is needed for some flags, cant think which ones atmo..

Infantry Kashan in Bunker area Awesome.

[VisOne]

I'm not talking massive walks across the map, they just need a bit more space and the ability to attack the flag from more than one direction!

Ohh in that regard I agree but they way I look at it the 16 player maps need to still be fun when you can only muster 8 ppl put still go all the way to around 20. Without it becoming a fragfest like UT or CS.

BTW Blackie is certainly onto something bigger flag capture area for ALL.

[Wokeye]

+1 for change of location to al kufrah 16p & jeeps or bunker fight for Kashan.

What about an urban option for 16p Al Basrah to compliment the fields/village map?

[1rankman]

maybe change 16p Al Basrah to the island with the houses on it

[daveee]

Bigger flag radius is a must, so you can actually defend the area rather than sit right on top of the flag with no cover and be taken out so damn easily!

[[T]BludShoT]

Wokeye, you can't have two 16p versions of al basrah because there is only one 16p layer. The only way to do it is to have a duplicate of al basrah, which they definitely won't do because of the extra file size, and the obvious problems of having to maintain 2 versions of the map.


About this larger flag radius, I think you guys have it all wrong. You think it will make it easier to defend a flag because you won't have to "sit right on top of the flag with no cover" and that "This would have the enemy have to actually clear an area", but in reality this would just allow a couple enemies to sneakily crawl up to some far flung spot that is now in the big radius, and hide there capping the flag. It would make defense more difficult because it would increase the spots the enemy can cap from.

If you're sitting right on top of the flag in order to defend it, then you're doing it wrong. When you capture the flag, what you should do is get off the radius and set up proper defensive positions. Everyone knows the enemy will spam the radius before moving in, so what you need to do is cover the angles and make sure people have an eye on the flag, from around the flag. Also, you should put one guy right on the flag to give good intel on if the enemy has managed to sneak in somehow.

But especially in a 6v6 clan match, larger radii would just kind of make the game dumb. You leave one or two guys on defense and they don't have a hope in hell of defending because the enemy will just sneak a couple guys into some far flung nook. They stand there trying to cover what entrances they can, and then bam the flag goes grey. Then they have to search all over this big radius to find the enemies. At least with the way it is now you need to kill the defenders in order to capture the flag.

[daveee]

We're not talking a massive radius. Like 10-20m, as opposed the the 5-10 it is at the moment.

[CDN-SMOKEJUMPER]

I like the frag fest as it's actually realistic but I do want to be able to survive the explosions so a bigger cap radius would awesone so +1 for me on that great idea!

[Wokeye]

Fair call Bloodshot, two maps is unwieldy.
+1 Al Basrah Urban map then - this plays into the theme of close-quarters urban search missions.

As for cap radius, IMO if they are too big they become fodder for ninjas hiding in off-flag hideyholes (eg behind buildings, on rooves) like many flags in vBF2. It should be tactically difficult to cap a flag - a small radius makes it easier to defend them with a smaller number of troops.

[daveee]

Yeah but in some flags the radius is so small while you're capping it there is next to no cover. :(

[AxlOz]

I think 16p Mestia should centre around the Western Bunker. Have the teams spawn on a side of it each and have to make their way up the hill too cap and hold it. Be kinda like a 'king of the hill' game for those who used to play Delta Force way back when.

I find the battles around the munitions plant are far too predictable and once you're inside you just have to watch the direction of the door and you're sweet.

Now that I think about it there's some other points on that map that would be cool for the 16p games, the munitions plant would actually be the last one that i'd pick..

[CDN-SMOKEJUMPER]

+1 on Al Basrah being a street fight. It's a great city map really as it's not too tight a fight so it's not overly spammy so it's a really fun map.

I do disagree a bit on defense on a larger area, while I don't want the radius too large it's wise to spread out. Plus if someone can creep up on the flag it forces you to go looking for people and takes away the ability to just throw a grenade into the exact same spot every time just because you know they have to be there in order to cap. This does indeed make it more difficult but then nothing easy is worth doing, that's my take on it anyway.

We don't want it too big of course or it's just stupid.

[1rankman]

i think it should take a sq of 4 (or depending on the map) to truly defend a flag

[AncientMan]

The Al Basrah street fight map is the 32p one. VCP being uncap, 1 APC, and a battle in the main city. We took it out and replaced it with the 16p map, because people didn't like it................

Larger flags zones, I'm fine with for the 32 and 64p maps. but for 16p, I wouldn't go for it. The maps are designed for clan battles, so large flag zones where 2 guys can hide in an unseen corner wouldn't make sense. The whole point of the 16p clan battle maps are who has the most skill to break through the enemy's defense and capture the flag. High intensity, and very close quarters action. Getting close to the flag, and just hiding in the flag zone, yeah...

Anyway, me and BludShoT have given the suggestions to Fuzzhead in the dev forums, should make the next version small maps much better. Well, when Fuzzhead was seriously considering making Kashan 16p the full size, with only APC's and jeeps, yeah, definitely better. It's up to Fuzz though on what suggestions he implements or not.

[[T]BludShoT]

Now that I think about it there's some other points on that map that would be cool for the 16p games, the munitions plant would actually be the last one that i'd pick..

I picked the 4 flags across the top of the map because of their distances and what is between them. I would have loved to have a big fight in Storage Bunker, but there's just no good place to have other flags and use Storage Bunker imo.


We're not talking a massive radius. Like 10-20m, as opposed the the 5-10 it is at the moment.

I'm pretty sure they aren't that small right now? On some maps its like 20-40 meters isn't it? Not sure. But 5-10 can't be very common although I guess some flags have that.

[AncientMan]

On Kufrah is 100m on some flags

[daveee]

BludShoT;46586']I picked the 4 flags across the top of the map because of their distances and what is between them. I would have loved to have a big fight in Storage Bunker, but there's just no good place to have other flags and use Storage Bunker imo.




I'm pretty sure they aren't that small right now? On some maps its like 20-40 meters isn't it? Not sure. But 5-10 can't be very common although I guess some flags have that.

It was just an example of doubling the current radius on maps that have a small area.

[VisOne]

BludShoT;46586']
I'm pretty sure they aren't that small right now? On some maps its like 20-40 meters isn't it? Not sure. But 5-10 can't be very common although I guess some flags have that.

The current Qwai river 16 player my friend has the most annoying small flag zones and ofcourse street, but given how big that map is and its layout it atleast has a excuse. Slightly bigger capture radius on most maps wouldn't hurt the game play at all or atleast giving the flags into a little more cover.

[[T]BludShoT]

The thing with street is, if you increase the radiuses there, then you can capture Market from *behind* in the little alley (and the same thing might happen to gas station). Which I feel is highly undesirable which is why I purposely made those radius's so small.

But for other maps, I can understand increasing 5 or 10 meter radiuses. That's probably fine (certainly the 5 meter ones lol)

[Ablack77]

The current Qwai river 16 player my friend has the most annoying small flag zones

And THAT was exactly the map I was thinking about at the time.

I can understand what you were saying about Street -
there's not really too much room to go moving flag radius's around on that map.

Would loooooooovvvve to see a bigger version of Street made :)

Anyway my thoughts on the small flag radius's were mainly because of the spammy nade fests that can occur (reguarly)
Can't think of the particular flag name on Qwai that is a TERRIBLE spam fest,
it promotes SHOCKING....SHOCKING vanilla style play.

But hey I can only give you my opinion......it's up to the powers that be to do what they will with our opinions..

[Shotgun]

like the idea, should add vehicles like tansport to maps though:) i hate running

thumbs up

[VisOne]

I can't think of any 16 player map other than Kashan that needs any sort of transport.

[1GeKKo3]

small cap radius needs different strategy to cap thats all, imo.

If a team is nade spamming, smoke up the approach of the flag and then hide on the far side of the flag but not in the cap radius, shoot them as they come in after the nades stop and then nade to finish them off when their on the flag.

Small maps are about making the right move at the right time. You take down the 6 people on the opposite team means you can move up cause it will take a while for respawn. Once the devs figure that u can use the info of the score sheet like this they will remove this info.

[GruAncH]

Yeah or 2 players move onto the radius and the rest of the squad form a perimeter defence

[[T]BludShoT]

Yeah or 2 players move onto the radius and the rest of the squad form a perimeter defence

That's what I was trying to say.

On Qwai, there is a flag by a fuel tank thing, if that's the one you mean, you can actually capture it from a doorway on the other side of the building, so that helps.

I dunno how you guys can play qwai anyways, the flag bleeds are all messed up. But that's more of an issue in clan matches than just regular pubs though.