Replacement for Auscam coming in 2011?

[Ballistic]

Steyr replacement isn't happening until late this decade. I also doubt very much that the G3 will replace the Steyr.

Unless the United States, Britain and other allies adopt the 7.62 as the primary ammunition type Australia will not either.

The only way the 7.62 is making a come back anytime soon is at the platoon level with a designated marksmen rifle and more MAG58/GPMG at section/platoon level.

Not to discount what he said, but everything I've seen suggests staying with the 5.56.

[Aus Sniper01]

Ah well I did say its running 3rd place for replacement. I did not say IT'S the one replacing. I said its running as 3rd.

[Madhouse]

Originally Posted by Aus Sniper01

He he he he he....Well. My dads mate (Only giving initial) *A* went to Pucka Last weekend to award the Troops for the CQB Comp, and word was mentioned to ex vets that the 7.62mm is coming back for Aus. Dad and I have also been told by *A* that the G3 is in running 3rd place to replace the Steyr.

Thats all.

Thats not a creditable source mate...

Plus the G3 dates back to the 1950's and is not fully customizable without major changes to the weapons externel design.
Plus the EF88 (F88A4) is planned to be put into service in the next couple years (?), saw that on the PR ADF sub-forum from the feller who has all this up to date info on the ADF.

It could also be argued that a G3 would be a disadvantage in CQB with its long lenght, slower firing rate and higher recoil.

[Ballistic]

Originally Posted by Aus Sniper01

Ah well I did say its running 3rd place for replacement. I did not say IT'S the one replacing. I said its running as 3rd.

My reply was mostly in regards to 7.62/5.56, in which you stated that 7.62 was making a come back. The only way 7.62 is currently making a comeback in Australian service is a DMR (SR-25) and more MAG58's.

All I said with regards to the G3 was: "I also doubt very much that the G3 will replace the Steyr."

But given the retarded nature of Defence procurement in Australia, I have no doubt a completely inferior and underwhelming platform will be purchased.

Like MadHouse said, the EF88 will be in service soonish (God knows how long though) which is a life of type extension for the F88, adding more 1913 rails, a side loading 40mm grenade launcher (like the HK M320), and possibly more variety in sighting systems like the trialled ELCAN SpectreDR which would be freaking awesome. Also if images I saw are anything to go by, a variety vertical grips like the SureFire M900 series.

That's a pretty tricked out Steyr.

[McDethWivFries]

Have been following a similar discussion on another forum for a while re the benefits of 5.56mm over 7.62mm (being the 5.56 is lighter and has a flatter trajectory over the 7.62 but not the same stopping power). The US are apparently looking at 6.5/6.8mm iirc as a possible replacement for the 5.56 as it has a similar stopping power to the 7.62, has an even flatter trajectory with a minimal weight penalty.

[Ballistic]

Originally Posted by McDethWivFries

Have been following a similar discussion on another forum for a while re the benefits of 5.56mm over 7.62mm (being the 5.56 is lighter and has a flatter trajectory over the 7.62 but not the same stopping power). The US are apparently looking at 6.5/6.8mm iirc as a possible replacement for the 5.56 as it has a similar stopping power to the 7.62, has an even flatter trajectory with a minimal weight penalty.

And apparently the 6.8 can be used with the M4 series by simply changing out the upper receiver and a dedicated 6.8 SPC magazine.

Such a great round.

But this has little to do with AUSCAM.

[McDethWivFries]

Originally Posted by Ballistic

But this has little to do with AUSCAM.

not unless you cam up the rounds before shooting them . . . you know so they blend in with the background while 'in transit' (o;

[Ballistic]

Originally Posted by McDethWivFries

not unless you cam up the rounds before shooting them . . . you know so they blend in with the background while 'in transit' (o;

ROFL.

Now that you mention that, the dreaded painted rifle may be seeing service within the ADF with some new fandangled paint they've been trialling. Check out last months Army newspaper (I think).

[neftaly]

Hah, battle rifle replacement has got to be bunk. The people arguing for the superiority of 7.62 always seem to be either oldie veterans who don't have to carry a battle load, armchair veterans who don't have to carry a battle load or hunters who don't have to carry a battle load

[SmOOvDoGG]

Originally Posted by Ballistic

My reply was mostly in regards to 7.62/5.56, in which you stated that 7.62 was making a come back. The only way 7.62 is currently making a comeback in Australian service is a DMR (SR-25) and more MAG58's.

That sounds very familiar a Combat Engy mate of mine heard they are looking at sections running with 2 GPMG and may increase the size of sections as well but like everything its all speculation

[anglomanii]

hi guy's, good to see this type of discussion going on here.
this is the kind of stuff i am fairly keen on. and it kinda helps Tonnie out when he is making the models for the ADF PR stuff.

firstly i hardly know everything, and have been proven wrong on some accounts. but i do try and keep up to date and try to get things right.

as far as i know between 2012 and 2014 there is a huge amount of purchasing and acquisitions taking place, ADF wide. (all services)
as to the question of uniforms, the whole thing is under review as DSTO the main component of this development centers on the layered or "cascade" system of using under-armor utility uniforms, load bearing or equipment carriage systems and over armor camouflage systems, that being said, most of this is still in early development and wont even be prototype ready until after 2014.

this is the most current piece i have on this from the MEAO.
http://www.defence.gov.au/army/docs/...it_to_meao.pdf

mind you 2,cdo is using multicam, and with the upgraded upper receivers for their M4's as well as another advanced Battle rifle which i was told was a HK but have no concrete source (even though i trust him implicitly)

other things to mention. yes, m320 is being trialled.
yes, EF88 will be in service till 2020.
several 7.62mm rifles are being tested for DMR and FS roles. not as individual weapons AFAIK.
steyr replacement: as far as i am able to tell no currently in service weapons system is being considered for post 2020 tender.
7.62mm minimi (aka "maximi") are being tested (as replacement for 5.56mm minimi) by deployed forces in MEAO. mag 58's are being moved to the MSS along with the new CG and what i hear is a platoon 60mm mortar system for fire support.

it's late i cant think of anything else right now.
anglo.

[Ballistic]

Originally Posted by anglomanii

hi guy's, good to see this type of discussion going on here.
this is the kind of stuff i am fairly keen on. and it kinda helps Tonnie out when he is making the models for the ADF PR stuff.

firstly i hardly know everything, and have been proven wrong on some accounts. but i do try and keep up to date and try to get things right.

as far as i know between 2012 and 2014 there is a huge amount of purchasing and acquisitions taking place, ADF wide. (all services)
as to the question of uniforms, the whole thing is under review as DSTO the main component of this development centers on the layered or "cascade" system of using under-armor utility uniforms, load bearing or equipment carriage systems and over armor camouflage systems, that being said, most of this is still in early development and wont even be prototype ready until after 2014.

this is the most current piece i have on this from the MEAO.
http://www.defence.gov.au/army/docs/...it_to_meao.pdf

mind you 2,cdo is using multicam, and with the upgraded upper receivers for their M4's as well as another advanced Battle rifle which i was told was a HK but have no concrete source (even though i trust him implicitly)

other things to mention. yes, m320 is being trialled.
yes, EF88 will be in service till 2020.
several 7.62mm rifles are being tested for DMR and FS roles. not as individual weapons AFAIK.
steyr replacement: as far as i am able to tell no currently in service weapons system is being considered for post 2020 tender.
7.62mm minimi (aka "maximi") are being tested (as replacement for 5.56mm minimi) by deployed forces in MEAO. mag 58's are being moved to the MSS along with the new CG and what i hear is a platoon 60mm mortar system for fire support.

it's late i cant think of anything else right now.
anglo.

Yeah everything there I've heard about apart from the 60mm mortar. The 7.62 Minimi (Mk48) will be an incredible force multiplier. The 60mm mortar at platoon level will be a huge improvement in platoon fire support capability and the upgraded CG is a nice addition also.

Infantry 2012 is definitely adding some excellent capability to the Battalions.